GENERAL DISCUSSIONS
After, the inaugural session, a general debate on the agenda items, was initiated and continued on the whole of 2nd May and from 9 A.M to 11 A.M. on 3rd May. Almost all the members participated. The brief summary of the points raised by them is given below.
Agenda Papers I At the very outset, Shri Vijay Kumar Malhotra, Chief Executive Councillor, Delhi raised a point that the agenda papers of the Central Advisory Board of Education should be supplied in Hindi as well as in English. The chairman assured him that this would be done from the next meeting.
Education Minister, Tamil Nadu I would like to make a few general observations on some aspects of education.
I have read with great interest the paper on Centre-State relations in Education, by the Union Education Minister. This has some relevance to the role that the Ministry of Education and Youth Services can play in this matter and the manner in which the State and Centre should collaborate in educational development. The framers of the Constitution gave considerable thought to this question. The constitution makes it clear that education is a State subject. The final responsibility for educational. development rests on the States. The Education Commission has rightly held the view that the present status given to education in the Constitution is as it should be and that no amendment of the Constitution in this regard is called for. The Administrative Reforms Commission has also recommended that State subjects should be dealt with only in the States and the Centre should play a purely advisory role. I hope nothing would be done to upset this balance.
I welcome the suggestion that the Centre should have an inherent responsibility to discover talent and promote programmes of national integration. I am not, however; very happy about the suggestion made that the Centre should increase its investment in education, not only for the Central Sector but also in the Centrally sponsored sector. The Centre should not distribute its resources in such a way that the so-called educationally backward States get grants from the Centre at the expense of the educationally forward States. It is not possible to stop the development of education at a particular stage and wait till the least developed State comes to the level of the forward State. Every state should get its due share of the amount available with the Central Government and the educationally forward states should continue to develop further on right lines. As- far as Tamil Nadu is concerned, there has been considerable taxation on the people during all the plan periods and the entire. additional amount collected has been spent on the development of educational facilities. Even now there is considerable demand for opening more schools. I do not want that by increasing the amount available on educational development in the Central Sector and the Centrally-sponsored sector, the amount available to State Governments for education schemes is reduced.
With regard to language policy, our position has been made clear more than once. Our State Assembly passed a Resolution, with no member dissenting, that the State should follow only a two-language formula and that only English and Tamil should be taught. The Government of Tamil Nadu not opposed to Hindi language as such. but is vehemently opposed to Hindi being imposed on non-Hindi States. It is, however, sad to point out that the three-language formula is not implemented, in many States which profess to follow the three-language formula. In fact, in some States, there is only one-language formula and even English is being abolished. It is unfortunate that the Regional language is not taught at all in the Central Schools on the plea that such schools are meant only for children of Central Government employees who are liable to transfer. (At this stage, the Chairman intervend and pointed out that it had since been decided to permit the teaching of the regional languages in the Central schools outside the school hours and that instructions to that end had been issued).
I am in agreement with the view that a decision adopted by the majority of the State Governments should not be regarded as binding on others.
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As for Tamil Nadu is concerned, any opinion, expressed by a Minister is given the greatest weight and any scheme approved by the Education Minister is not likely to suffer because of the absence of the Chief Minister in the process of decision-making.
For strengthening Centre-State relations, it would be good if the Officers of the Central Government and Academicians at the Centre establish a dialogue with the corresponding Officers and Academicians in the State Government. Both sides would benefit by such exchange of views, information and experience.
I shall now come to the question of study of modern Indian languages. No doubt the One crore scheme has been evolved for the production of books,for colleges in regional languages. The total amount available for this scheme has not been distributed equitably among the languages mentioned in,the Constitution. A major portion is earmarked for the development of Hindi. Our Government feels that every language should receive its share of Central assistance. I only plead that whatever special facilities are given for the development of Hindi language should be extended to all languages including Tamil. As a result of two International Conferences on Tamil in Malaya and in Madras, a great interest has been created in the study of Tamil throughout the world and there is a proposal to start an International Institute of Tamil Studies and Research with Headquarters in Tamil Nadu. I would request the Central Government to give liberal assistance, outside the one crore scheme, to make this Institute work successfully. It is not possible to divert any amount from the one crore scheme for this Institute since the amount is hardly sufficient for the production of Tamil Books for colleges.
Our Government is opposed to the establishment of colleges and other institutions of higher education in non-Hindi States where Hindi will be the medium of Education. If such a college is opened in Tamil, Nadu, a similar college should be opened in each State, by the Centre with Tamil as the medium of instruction. (At this point, the chairman intervened to say that no Central college with Hindi as medium will be opened in Tamil Nadu, or any other State, without the approval of the State Government).
I am very happy to note that large amounts have been set apart for grants by the UGC to the various universities and colleges in the States in such a way that the total grant given to institutions in a state will bear some relation to the population of the State instead of to the number of universities in the State, In Tamil Nadu, there are only three universities and hence the total aid from the UGC for the universities in Tamil Nadu compares very unfavourably with such aid to the universities in other States.
I would like to mention only a few words about the Fourth Plan. Notwithstanding the severe financial constraints the Tamil Nadu Government has been able to set apart Rs. 5 crores under the Fourth Plan. This amount may slightly go up when the total amount under the plan is increased from Rs. 543 to Rs. 558 crores for the State. Notwithstanding this large amount set apart for education, it has not been possible to take up any worthwhile scheme to improve the quality of education. The existing resources have been used up mostly on giving various benefits to the teachers and even during the Fourth Plan, the maximum amount will be spent,on the salaries of teachers that will be employed to meet the increase in enrolment. To some ex- tent, the Plan schemes have become inelastic and it has not been found possible to make any cuts in amounts in continuing schemes. I would therefore suggest that instead of expending the Central sector, the Central Government should aim at spending more money in the States on improvement schemes so that the quality of, education may go up.
I am not very happy about the idea of starting a Central University in each State, when the existing Central Universities except the Delhi University cannot be said to work very satisfactorily. Such universities loose touch with the State Government and any number of problems crop up which require solution.
Our Government has been repeatedly pressing for a reduction in the lists of monuments of national importance so that certain monu- ments could be taken over by State Government for preservation and conservation. In my State, a full-fledged Archaeological Department has been created with the complementary staff and experts and it should not be difficult for this Department to take care of such monuments. In fact, it is our view that such monuments could be better taken care of by the State Government than by the Central Government. We in particular have urged upon the Central Government to transfer the temple of Thanjavur, the temple at Gangai- kondacholapuram and the Fort in Vellore to the State Government immediately. The Central Government officers of the Archaeological Survey are not sufficiently responsive to the wishes of the local people in the State. The sooner this state of affairs is ended, the better it is.
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I am glad that the Union Minister has pinpointed to this meeting the concern of the country over the worsening situation in the student-world at present. This is a delicate issue but it has to be handled with a sense of urgency and an awareness of the root causes of student unrest and indiscipline. I have been bestowing some thought on this problem and I feel convinced that the issue could, to a great extent, be resolved if we could approach it with imagination and thoughtfulness. I may suggest that, to begin with, every educational institution should set up what I may call a joint council consisting of representatives of popular teachers, influential parents and ideal students who are charged with the responsibility of settling all issues relating to student grievances. The council should have a common code of regulations acceptable to the students, and teachers and its decisions should be accepted as part of a code of agreement. The council should discuss the problems dispassionately and frankly and come to pragmatic decisions wisely and imaginatively.
The Union Minister for Education is an eminent educationist with a great deal of administrative ability. He has had his education in Tamil Nadu and knows intimately the problems of the Southern States and the problems of the educationally advanced States. He has had the advantage of seeing for himself some of the schemes of the Tamil Nadu Government for mobilising local resources like the School Meal Programme, School Improvement Conferences, contributions from public for starting schools and colleges. With all this, he is aware that the State Government is finding it difficult to meet the ever increasing demand for resources for education. I am sure the Union Minister will appreciate our difficulties and do justice to us.
Education Minister, Kerala I would like to say something about the language problem. We are implementing the three-language formula in the Kerala State. This is only nominal because there is not much utility. We are sending our teachers to the Regional Language Training Institutes. As the Education Minister from Tamil Nadu has said, education in forward States has its own problems. We are spending about 42 per cent of our total budget on education. Our expenditure on general education is increasing year by year. So are the salaries of teachers. We have 100 % enrolment as far as 6 to 11 years age-group is concerned. I think, we are almost very near to the target. For the age-group of, 11 to 14 years, we have 70% enrolment. After the Kothari Commission report, the teachers have begun to demand an improvement in teachers'. salaries and therefore, we will have to think about providing an increase in the salaries of teachers. Without Central assistance. we will not be able, to meet the additional expenditure involved in this.
Then we have the other question of amenities and facilities given to the students. I have a feeling that amenities in schools and colleges are, in a way, connected with the student problems. We are trying an experiment in student participation. Ours is the first university that has given representation to the students in the Senate. But there is so much of politics on the campus. That is one of the reasons why it is not working satisfactorily. There is no method by which it can be prevented. But the provision of facilities will certainly help. (At this stage, the chairman intervened to inform the Board that, this year, the Central Government had specially earmarked Rs. 3 crores for student welfare activities in colleges and universities all over the country). That will surely go a long way to solve this. Another problem which I would like to mention is that of school buildings, Many students die in Kerala during the monsoon because of the sad plight of our buildings. This time we are thinking of changing the holidays to avoid the monsoon. But that is not a solution. Also, there is opposition from the teachers. I know the difficulties of the Central Government also. But can you not think of giving us a loan for constructing school buildings ? We are constructing one school building a day at present. But we are still not able to solve the problem.
Then is the problem of backward areas and of backward social, groups. In higher education, we have to admit students on merits as we are not in a position to give education to every boy. We have, therefore, to give this facility to areas where the backward classes are in a minority. For education of girls, especially Muslim girls who have been neglecting education for centuries, encouragement has also to be given.
I find that minority schools, run by the minorities are now claiming a number of privileges. We find it very difficult to have some check on such minority institutions. It would, therefore, be advantageous if the Central Government examined the legal aspects of this problem.
All our regional, languages are closely connected with Sanskrit. I am told that the Government of India is thinking of various
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schemes for Sanskrit education. We will have to give more scholarships if Sanskrit education is to be provided to a large number of students. I think there is a separate conference arranged by Shri Bhakt Darshan on this subject.
Finally, I would like to stress the pay-scales of teachers. We must all put our heads together to solve this difficult problem. But unless something really worthwhile is done in this sphere, no improvement will be possible in any sphere of education.
Education Minister, Andhra Pradesh We are very grateful to you for your inspiring address. I am sure we shall carry back this inspiration and try to benefit from, it.
You have already announced two committees-one on student unrest and the other on compulsory education. I hope that these two committees will complete their work very soon so that concrete proposals can be formulated.
About the outlay on education in the Fourth Five Year Plan, we find ourselves very much in agreement with you in so far as the Plan outlay is concerned. The priority given to education is not somebody's arbitrary choice. It is the choice of the State Cabinets. It may therefore not be quite correct to equate the outlay on education with the influence of the Education Minister. In my own case, even if it is assumed that I am a very uninfluential person, we have had far more influential persons incharge of education in the past, but, education has nevertheless remained where it was. We have our own priorities when a plan is drawn Up and I am afraid that a major change in the broad picture that has emerged may not be very feasible. While trying to get more funds for education therefore, we should also try to find out how the available funds can be utilised to the greatest advantage.
You have been good enough to announce a few things which are really inspiring. I am particularly grateful for this announcement about the scholarships for talented students, two from each C.D. Block. We have also been thinking on similar lines. In fact, we have formulated a scheme to this end from the next academic year. We are ourselves starting quality schools on the Netarhart pattern. Your announcement has come in at the most appropriate time. The only problem which we are facing at the moment in this-scheme and we would like to have the opinion of the NCERT and the Ministry of Education in the method of selecting these students. it is quite possible that the selection may not be uniformly correct in,the sense that the most talented boy is always selected. On that point we would like to have some more thinking at the Central level as well as at our level. I feel that this is a continous process in which the NCERT, the Central Ministry and the States will have to collaborate and compare notes from time to time.
I am glad that the language question has been posed here. We have been very vigorously and sincerly implementing the three-language formula. But, as I had an occasion to submit to you earlier, the question of paying Hindi teachers has become a costly problem in Andhra Pradesh. We have appointed thousands of teachers and thousands more will have to be appointed. I would request you not to look at it from the point of view of how much a State gets but how much it requires if this scheme is to be implemented in full. There is no point in having this scheme half-way.
About the minority schools to which my friend Mr. Koya has referred, an allied question is the language load on a boy of a linguistic minority. I had occasion to raise this point previously. But I am not sure whether any study has been made on this subject. In the case of most minority students, they have to study four languages. How are these four languages going to be fited into his education? At the end of ten years, will he be able to get an equal proficiency with others who are following the three-language formula? These are very ticklish problems which we are facing in, Andhra Pradesh, particularly with boys with Urdu or Kannada medium. In the first four years, if a boy is going to be taught in Urdu only, how is he going to catch up with other students at the end of his tenth class? I am glad that we are now introducing the new scheme for teaching of languages. But all the same, I would like to emphasize that all these things will have to be gone in detail and the question of linguistic minorities, will have to be studied in depth.
I very much support the proposal of loans for school buildings. Naturally, we all support any schemes which give us loans. Our per- formance in repaying has not been very bad. You may take it that this is the unanimous opinion of this Board. In the recent cyclone in the coastal areas in Andhra, the schools have been very badly hit and it will take years and years to reconstruct them. This is therefore a very important problem and we would very much like the Central Ministry to take it up.
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Education Minister, Gujarat I entirely agree with the Education Minister of Tamilnadu about the Centre-State relations in education. The sphere of the Centre should not be enlarged,the States would not perhaps like that. The Centre should be a coordinating agency to give guidelines to the States in educational matters and possibly to give financial help where necessary. The truth is that we are very short of funds and cannot therefore implement several desirable schemes. In Gujarat, we have made primary education free up to standard VII. Primary education is available in 97% of the villages and secondary education is available within a radius of 4 or 5 miles. Of course, stagnation and wastage are large. This is due to several reasons. One of them is the adoption of the shift system. We are giving only one teacher for every 80 students. The school is run in two shifts, each shift lasting for about 2 hours and 40 minutes for a class of 40 pupils. But that generally does not happen at all. The students come together to school and stay throughout the day. That is why perhaps the teacher is not in a position to take proper care of the class. We are thinking of abolishing this system and giving a teacher for 50 students. Perhaps that may improve the situation and the stagnation may be reduced.